shapechange vs true polymorph

If you turn a creature into another kind of creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the targets (or its level, if the target doesnt have a challenge rating). Now, if we again look to the specifics of this spell versus True Polymorph, then this would seem to imply that, given that you cant use lair or legendary actions when you Shapechange, you can when you True Polymorph. Dont expect the target to do math or make tactical decisions. Boolean algebra of the lattice of subspaces of a vector space? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You are using an out of date browser. I know that True Polymorph is a Concentration spell, so the first True Polymorph would end when they cast the second one, I don't think they lose the spell they're Concentrating on if they lose the Spellcasting feature that gave them the slot in the first place? Druid Equipment that merges has no effect in that state. by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:13 pm, Post By what metric are we going to judge that? Does he revert to normal physical form? Does a password policy with a restriction of repeated characters increase security? This passage at the very end of it's description is what sets it apart. The GM determines whether it is practical for the new form to wear a piece of equipment, based on the creature's shape and size. Random's articles include the the Armor Artificer Handbook, the Hexblade Warlock Handbook, and the Practical Guide to Magical Secrets. Quick list of some excellent forms for this: So lets talk about some other good forms: As for the last line there, basically its saying dont turn into a goldfish first, then turn into a Pit Fiend and expect to have 300 hp because instead youre still going to have 1 (although see the Death Slaad above). The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. Druids suck? vs Shape Change and Polymorph - EN World Mearles has stated time and time again his responses is how *he* would rule it. Otherwise, the target likely attacks the nearest enemy in combat. For example, if you take 10 damage in animal form Portions of the materials used are property of Wizards of the Coast. @JeremyECrawford You need to look carefully at what you choose, but most high-level things have Innate and not regular so expect to be able to use everything unless you are, for instance, looking at the Diviner stat block. Effectively this will multiply your spell slots, and it's generally a good tactic. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. What happens if I choose, for example, a golem with text in its stat block A golem cant think or act for itself? I dont have a good answer. There's nothing to dispel. The new form can be of any creature with a challenge rating equal to your level or lower. If the dragon fails a saving throw, it can choose to succeed instead. Would it be possible to only half transform into a monster? by Hrosskell Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:08 am, Post I don't mind piping in that tabletop and a mud are different in the respect that tabletop ends when the dm is no longer present but a mud runs with an automated design at all hours. Why the obscure but specific description of Jane Doe II in the original complaint for Westenbroek v. Kappa Kappa Gamma Fraternity? Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0, TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History, Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News, Wildshape Interactions with Weird Racial Features, Ignore/Block Essentials, Paid Registrations by. That's actually a perfect point and suddenly perma TP is valuable again. Make it a part of your character post campaign that they're going to experiment and make a spell that permanently changes their form to a dragon or something. You can turn an object into any kind of creature, as long as the creatures size is no larger than the objects size and the creatures challenge rating is 9 or lower. * (a drop of mercury, a dollop of gum arabic, and a wisp of smoke). Dan Dillon (@Dan_Dillon_1) April 18, 2016. Is there any known 80-bit collision attack? Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, their respective logos, and all Wizards titles and characters are property of Wizards of the Coast LLC in the U.S.A. and other countries. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. If you turn a creature into an object, it transforms along with whatever it is wearing and carrying into that form, as long as the objects size is no larger than the creatures size. According to Mearls: Mearles isn't even RAI for 5e. If you're concentrating on one spell, and you cast another concentration spell, when exactly does the first spell end? A proper Wizard needs no friends. Hex and Polymorph/ShapeChange. It turns out we are both wrong. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the chosen beast. I'd be more interested in being able to shape change into a Adult Bronze Dragon. or, if we were in the ocean. a leviathan good god this would be epic, As I am reading it - rules as written - at level 17, when you can gain access to this spell, you could Shapechange into"any" Adult Dragon (assuming you had seenthe type of dragon before). Fortunately, Crawford specified that you cant. You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. Why don't we use the 7805 for car phone chargers? Your culture? In discussing this with Tyler, his answer was to lean heavily on the word kind. To him, kind meant species as defined by taxonomical classification, so I could choose to make you a human or a pit fiend, but not the Diviner stat block from Volos. And comparing to Polymorph. What happens if a sorcerer is hit with Disintegrate while he has turned into a potted plant? Shapechange gives more cheesy options, like a Pit Fiend bladesinging, with shield spell mastery. A failed save always sucks, but I'd be glad to have this up as a damage sponge if nothing else in that case (because you'd lose the concentration after taking the damage). If a Dragon under the effects of their Change Shape feature is cloned, can the cloned Dragon revert to their true form? Why does Acts not mention the deaths of Peter and Paul? Shapechanging You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Civility in answers is a high priority on these boards so please consider referring to content in answers rather than referring to "you people" which can be interpreted as belittling: Dropping to 0 HP won't outright kill you in all cases if you are a PC. Shapechange states that you turn into a typical example of the creature withoutthe Spellcasting trait, but Crawford has confirmed on twitter that you would keep your ability to cast your own spells because that comes from your class features. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creatures bonus in place of yours. What if you cast Polymorph at 6th (I don't know rules for ties in spell level) or higher? dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your You cant use any special senses you have (for example, darkvision) unless your new form also has that sense. Its unclear what happens when you revert: has time passed for your body? We'll look into beefing up shapechange vs. polymorph at that time. by Althasizor Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:26 pm, Post For future readers' reference: the answer to this question changed due to the 2018 PHB errata, so the existing answers here may have been rendered inaccurate by the change. You could TP into her to get another 9th level slot theoretically, but you'd be limited to casting what she can so you can't cheese another slot to also cast Wish. This is to represent that youre turning into a normal creature of that type, not one with additional training. The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. True polymorph changes you once and that's it. You retain the benefit of any features from your class, race, or other source and can use them, provided that your new form is physically capable of doing so. If the same attack that causes a druid to revert from Wild Shape also reduces their maximum HP, what happens? Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange DnD 5e, Ancient Brass/Crystal/Deep/Topaz/White Dragon. Random Powell. If an Ancient Metallic Dragon uses Change Shape to turn into a humanoid with Innate Spellcasting, do the uses of X/day spells reset each time? To my understanding, this -is- the primary mode of combat, travel, etc. The change shape feature of the Brass dragon says (emphasis mine): The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own. However, it does offer useful forms that your allies can ride. Continue with Recommended Cookies. Shapechange only turns you into another creature. Use In-Game Forum commands to activate your forum account, It is currently Mon May 01, 2023 11:12 pm, We can put them in a helpfile and also keep them available on the, Time for the ability/skill should be increased. I had used it, and is one of my favourite spells in the game, because you are making the saves using the new form's saving throw proficiencies, so let's put an hypotetical lets say you transform into an ancient brass dragon, that has a +13 to con savings, you would have to receive more than 28 points of damage for the dc to be higher than 14 just to make the dc for you to be able to fail it, and taking into account that the average damage a terrasque, a cr 30 monster, makes is 28 i would argue the concentration aspect is almost irrelevant. Pop out from under someone and turn into a Pit Fiend and beat the absolute tar out of them. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. However, it may be helpful to pick a few staple forms which you use repeatedly. When an Adult Gold Dragon changes into an Archmage, what are its saving throw and skill bonuses? One amusing thing you may have noticed that you cant do with True Polymorph is turn objects into other objects. or b) The body polymorphs back into its original form, then it disintegrates. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to :). Right now I believe it is correct to say they are identical save with respect to what races are allowed as targets. * (a jade circlet worth at least 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head before you cast the spell). You could also True Polymorph someone else, and they would be free to polymorph into something else. result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to Each of these things is a specific difference and considering the WotC lawyer speak writing of spells and actions and the various errata that they change over time (learned over years of writing the rules on Magic cards), I do not believe there is an intent to be vague. Just transmute a sufficiently large rock into a brontosaurus, then transmute that into, if Ive done my math right, roughly 100,000 pounds of diamond. Was Aristarchus the first to propose heliocentrism? Polymorph, Shapechange, and Wildshape- D&D Spell and Class - YouTube Fully open to DM interpretation and therefore argument. So what level of authenticity is required? Its certainly simpler. On the other hand, if you go for any printed stat block of appropriate CR, suddenly I can turn myself into named beings like Ogremoch. Remember from way up at the beginning that you cant transform the target into a magical object, so no you cant turn someone into a Sphere of Annihilation. I somehow have full access to its knowledge for the purpose of making it do things, but I cant use that knowledge for anything else. @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! As writen, it does not say you cannot use a creatures legendary saves, but it does say you cannot use its legendary actions or lair actions. Choose one creature or nonmagical object that you can see within range. Theres nothing really surprising here, although one thing can be a bit confusing. It can cripple enemies, turn the caster or an ally into a ferocious beast, or provide you with utility options which are difficult to replicate without relying on numerous other spells at once. Mighty villains and special nonplayer characters are common exceptions; the GM might have them fall unconscious and follow the same rules as player characters. As long You can only speak if the creature can normally speak. It seems to me that the concentration requirement would make it almost useless. You dont gain any Spellcasting traits, but you do gain Innate Spellcasting traits. If it is misused, it should be addressed. If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. Shapechange Vs True Polymorph - Tips & Tactics - D&D Beyond Can you get infinite spells through True Polymorph and Change Shape? What happens to the target of a "permanent" True Polymorph spell when its caster dies? When do you use in the accusative case? If we are going to follow SRD for almost everything as a standard, then we should adapt it for shape change. D&D 5E True Seeing, Polymorph and Shapechange and Secret Doors - EN World It would be consistent to rule that no matter what shape change or polymorph power was being used, Disintegrate is a special case and the Specific beats General argument should prevail for it. But if you save against the BW? Immediate vagueness problems. We also know that creatures under the effects of Polymorph, True Polymorph, or Shapechange, have essentially a large well of temp HP, which when they reach 0HP . It seems clear that Polymorph restricts you to doing things your new form is inherently capable of doing, whereas Wild Shape and Shapechange allow you to do anything you're normally capable of as long as your new form is physically able to do it. The Ancient Gold Dragon's Change Shape ability has an additional clause (emphasis mine): Its statistics and capabilities are otherwise replaced by those of the new form, except any class features or legendary actions of that form. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. The GM has the creatures statistics and resolves all of its actions and movement. True polymorph and the dragon Change Shape feature Expect updates periodically as additional sourcebooks are published. If I choose skeleton, what kind of skeleton am I? Which are the best True Polymorph forms to cheese this spell? Per @Airatome's comment on Mr Crawford's tweet: I can't find a way to bring up the ENTIRE conversation, but it was noted this applies to Polymorph target's as well. rev2023.5.1.43405. Additionally, with both of these spells, Legendary Resistance is a perfectly valid tool you gain access to. You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad, Started work on a 5E OGL SRD game that might get released on Drivethrurpg.com, http://www.sageadvice.eu/2014/10/11/rue-polymorph/, The Fighter (redesigned with more than swinging a weapon in mind, uses inspiration dice), The Thug (Hybrid Barbarian/Rogue) ver. You cannot use lair or legendary "actions", but it says nothing about legendary "saves" and most of the upper tier dragons have 3 of those. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. You transform into an average example of that creature, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait. Needs a friend, but how often have you gone on an adventure alone in this game? Have fun erasing the existence of every monster in the MM. Per the tweet linked, it appears that both Polymorphed cretaures and Wildshaped Druids would revert, rather than turn to dust, as RAI. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. There is no best form; every problem requires a different tool. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. I would personally try to fall between the two but closer to the lax end (because this is a 9th level spell and the game left the rails behind long ago at that point). And true polymorph allow changing creatures into objects and vice versa. Is there a difference between When you are reduced to 0 hit points and when you would be reduced to 0 hit points? User without create permission can create a custom object from Managed package using Custom Rest API, Extracting arguments from a list of function calls. @Orethalion During this spells duration, you can use your action to assume a different form following the same restrictions and rules for the original form, with one exception: if your new form has more hit points than your current one, your hit points remain at their current value. Unfortunately, the highest CR beast is currently the Tyrannosaurus Rex at CR 8. Is there a general rule that covers interaction between effects that cause death at 0 hit points and features that prevent death at 0 hit points? Which means that the PC is now double Polymorphed, but since True Sight says . (RAW). Dragon Breath Weapons are NOT a guarantee to drop this because you forget that you can save for 1/2. This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. Thats just basically a movie screen that a Scrying is playing on. Would that then let it take priority? Like lower CRs, CR 1/4 is too weak for combat forms. My bad on this one, I set the wizard testing polymorph to the wrong skill level. Creature into Object. Outside of combat, the target is likely friendly to their allies, but is likely driven by basic animal stuff. You also maintain your mental ability scores, which is a slightly double-edged sword but at least means youre not going to hose yourself if you do turn into something dumb and burly. You may also want to read the Shapechange and True Polymorph spell descriptions, but understand Polymorph is more important since it is more limited, and once you grasp Polymorph you should be able to apply that knowledge to other spells. "Signpost" puzzle from Tatham's collection, Generating points along line with specifying the origin of point generation in QGIS. Now cast true polymorph on them again to turn them into lots of above cr20 . Does Disintegrate reduce the a Polymorphed target to dust first or does the creature revert to its regular form first? Also it has "Legendary" in the name. Do they remain dead? Does he revert to normal physical form? As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you arent knocked unconscious. It kills you. It acts on each of your turns. If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus listed in its statistics is higher than yours, use the creatures bonus in place of yours. What happens when a Polymorphed creature is reduced to 0 HP by Disintegrate? Essentially, a druid like this would be able to stay shapechanged -indefinitely-. It retains its alignment and personality. When you drop to 0 hit points, you either die outright or fall unconscious, as explained in the following sections. Best creatures to turn into with true polymorph? : r/dndnext - Reddit Your druid will have been shaping for 12 levels when the wizard finally gets Shapechange. Alright, so this means that, if you have any equipment you really care about, youre going to want to keep yourself to medium size and probably humanoid-ish. All of the issue for those three spells leave the Wild Shape Druid class skill/ability open to "what level is that cast at?" Why refined oil is cheaper than cold press oil? You're a level 17+ Wizard and you cast True Polymorph on yourself to turn yourself into a CR 17 Adult Gold Dragon. I think freeing shapechange from Polymorph's duration constraints and list of available creatures (elementals, magical beasts, etc. The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. I think the Legendary Resistance comes under the category of Legendary Action, because a legendary action is basically just an action that a creature can do whilst it is someone else's turn. @BlueMoon93 Thanks, not sure if I can revive it; this is a good example of why it is important to avoid a link without a summary/sample of what's there. As we all know, Hex is a really useful spell. If the intent was to include all things legendary I believe it would have been writen that way. Should they change the rules or release something 'official' in regards to this, then I would abide by that, but at the end of the day, it still all comes down to what the individual DM decides works or doesn't work. Would the material component of this spell be replaced by a spell focus since it doesn't say that the circlet is consumed? The transition phase still needs a creature to make that happen. The shapechange spell says you retain your class features and can use them if your new form is physically capable of doing so. @JeremyECrawford Do Wild Shaped druids or polymorphed creatures count as "shapechangers" for Moonbeam, or only things w/ (shapechanger) tag? When exactly does a concentration spell end from casting another one? Waiting for OP to clarify, but they could concentrate for the full hour ot make TP permanent, and then your concern is no longer an issue. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. It acts on each of your turns. What's the cheapest way to buy out a sibling's share of our parents house if I have no cash and want to pay less than the appraised value. The wording is different than the wording for the spell in the. In theory you should last at least 3 or 4 rounds as the creature in question (if it has Legendary Resistance) and in that time, you should be able to mess some stuff up. Jeremy Crawford confirmed that you are still yourself. The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium, What source is that? The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. But then they will encounter the same problem if they try to do it a second time. You know, animal stuff. (Taken from the Disintegrate spell) It says monsters can take class levels in the DMG. Does it use its culture? There's a lot of differences between shapechange and polymorph. I'll go ahead and throw my support behind this idea. There is nothing in the rules that says you cannot revert to your original form if you are no longer a "creature." Others won't. Monstrous Compendium Vol 3: Minecraft Creatures, * - (a jade circlet worth at least 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head before you cast the spell). You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. This inherits all of the issues with any kind of creature from the first section but Im not going to list them again. If you revert as a result of The spellcaster level is also used for any cantrips included in the feature. What is the meaning of 'permanent' in description of True Polymorph? Sort of sucks. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. The entire basis of the Disintegrate spell is to turn something to ash, and there doesn't seem to be anything in the polymorph spell that would counter that or stop the disintegration. The creature is friendly to you and your companions. I definitely see the argument there. The Sage Advice Compendium supports this answer from a RAW perspective, Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my argument, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI. If you want to support your answer as written, suggest you refer to the sage advice compendium, page 14, since JCrawford covered both cases in that SA final draft. Shapechanging, Available For: A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. The creature cant activate, use, wield, or otherwise benefit from any of its equipment. ), its going to behave differently. For example, if you transformed into a Drow Matron Mother, you would not gain access to her ability to cast spells or her spell list - you'd still have your own spells and spell slots, however. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Is there a generic term for these trajectories? Shapechange IMO is more useful in a combat scenario. The only problem I see is that some people may make druids to abuse it, just like people that made centaurs or wemics to abuse the system by wearing armour or doing things neither of those races could do. One fortunate piece of clarity comes from this episode of Dragon Talk where Crawford clarifies that retain[ing] its personality and alignment means that its intended that you still understand who your friends are, even if your intelligence is now lower than the average bear. Tiamat however the other cr 30 monster has an avarage of 28 24 32 67 88 77 91 and 72 jeah dragon breath attacks are almost guaranteed to make you drop this (altho if it hit you without this you and your d8 hit die would probably loze most if not all hp) this goes for all dragons and all creatures with breath weapons or dmg dealing special abilitys tarrasque doesnt have thissince it is more of a impenetrable defense monster so you kinda used a bad example. That's my take on it, though I will point out that Jeremy Crawford is a D&D dev. You can effectively put away your character sheet and replace it with the stat block out of the Monster Manual. You effectively lose everything but your personality. Nerdarchy the News Letter- http://nerdarchynewsletter.gr8.com/Polymorph, Shapechange, and Wildshape- D&D Spell and Class Feature Discussion| D&D Player TipsW. If I use magic to see a pit fiend in a dream (with the Dream spell), does that count? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. DnD 5e - New Practical Guide to True Polymorph and Shapechange The Polymorph would not be able to reverse the disintegration spell since it isn't a True Resurrection Spell, or a Wish Spell. Since all other creatures die at 0 HP (unless the DM makes a special case to have them follow PC rules) that shouldn't influence the above. Next paragraph: The target assumes the hit points of its new form, and when it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Shapechange no longer becomes "change shape each round" but rather "keep your mind and change into a new shape". This means that if you are under Polymorph, Wildshape, Shapechange, or True Polymorph, you'd trigger the "revert to your original form" condition once Disintegrate reduced you to 0 HP, and take any additional damage to your original form in excess of what it took to reduce you to zero from Disintegrate. So I should ask my DM. Shapechange Vs. Polymorph - Forgotten Kingdoms Forums by Tarven Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:00 am, Post The creature cant be a construct or an undead, and you must have seen the sort of creature at least once. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of the chosen creature, though you retain your alignment and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Does the Way of the Long Death monk's Mastery of Death feature protect against the Disintegrate spell? points you had before you transformed. Apparently, RAI is in opposition to my argument per a tweet from Mr Crawford (Credit to @Airatome for this tweet): Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford Jeremy Crawford Retweeted Joshua

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